Winter series race 2/1/14

Forums Club Racing Winter series race 2/1/14

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November 3, 2014 at 12:19 pm #1774


I know there were some issues with people finishing on Sunday, but I don’t think it is correct Pete and Tom Kyne are DNS.
They are in the same group as me in the merlin so did the same number of laps, and were at least 3 minutes ahead (were any lap times available) so would have won the race easily!
Can this be reinstated?
( Mike and Ferret didn’t get a finish either and stopped after 3 laps although there was no board – the thought 3 laps was maximum number but apparently not in average laps, they also would have been challenging for the lead)

November 3, 2014 at 3:29 pm #1775


It is a difficult one Piers and I imagine very frustrating for all on the water and running the racing. I have published the results as given to me by the Race Officer and I do not have the power to change them arbitrarily. For that to happen there has to be a protest and someone look at all the issues. I believe Pete and Mike were spoken to about a protest and did not want to follow that route – certainly none was lodged.

If such a protest had been lodged it would have to consider that (as I understand it):-

No times were recorded for either boat.
Any estimate of the times would be subject to significant error.
Neither boat finished correctly – the course card and SIs are clear you keep going until your letter is displayed
No letters were displayed for other groups (I believe) – so technically they probably didn’t finish correctly either!

To be fair to the race officer I don’t think he expected Pete or Mike to stop when they did – nor was that his intention – and in the conflab/confusion that resulted he started recording times for the other as soon as they started crossing the line.

Against that background it is not clear what a protest committee would do to be as fair as possible to all. I imagine they might consider dropping the whole race. Alternatively they might award average points of all sailed races. While I can see they might choose to give Pete1st place but I can’t see how you guess Mike’s place, not least in relation to Pete. I certainly can’t see why you could treat them differently. That is why it should be a protest committee not me that makes any the decision after talking to all involved.

November 3, 2014 at 4:09 pm #1776

In isolation, what happened to us is our fault – we should have known the SIs. Ditto with Pete – we mislead him obviously so apologies for that. The RO then had a wobble (triggered by me saying that I thought that there was a max of 3 laps – I stress I did say “but I could be wrong”) and finished everyone else on the same lap – I guess that since boats in both our groups got positions for doing the same number of laps as we did then in theory we would both have had a case.

In practice we couldn’t be bothered to mess around with a protest and since it was our error which triggered it all it didn’t seem morally right to do so. Pete decided he couldn’t be bothered either.

I wonder what would have happened if the RO had done the technically correct thing and simply ignored that fact that Pete & us had failed to finish – the onus then would have been on the rest of group C to go around for another lap, but would they have done so? My money is probably on ‘no’, and no group C or D boats would have been scored as finishers.

PS – I’m assuming that Merlins & Fireballs are group C and B14/800 are group D but since I can’t find information that confirms this I’m not 100% sure… Are the groups published on the website? There is a link to Sailing Instructions but it takes you to a 3 pages document which says that the Sailing Instructions are on the website…

  • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by MikeBz MikeBz.
  • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by MikeBz MikeBz.
November 3, 2014 at 4:25 pm #1780


You are right Mike Fireball is top of Group C. The split is on the wall of the start hut but should I think be in the SIs? In turn the SIs seem to have got lost on hte migration of the website to the new server and replaced with a second copy of the Notice of Race. I will get that fixed


November 3, 2014 at 4:33 pm #1781

Thanks Dave.

I think the lessons from all of the above are:

1. Competitors should know the SIs thoroughly.
2. Race Officers should know the SIs thoroughly.
3. Competitors should ignore what the boats ahead of them do and sail according to their knowledge of the SIs.
4. Race Officers should record the times of all boats round the TM just in case.

Hey ho, onwards & upwards. Maybe we’ll next week we’ll have a course on which we can fly the kite for more than 200 yards a lap – I don’t hold out much hope though 🙁

November 4, 2014 at 3:06 pm #1782


While no protest was lodged and I suppose the results stand I am sure that the competitors did not protest as it is a club race and not as serious as a championship.
If there had been a protest I am sure the whole race would be lobbed!
I feel that the same spirit of club racing could be applied – what about awarding both competitors average points?

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